S02 E10: Will Our Lives Still Matter?
Contact the Team
For all inquiries related to Pod For The Cause, please contact Brittany Johnson at [email protected] and Kenny Yi at [email protected].
Allyn: You are listening today because you have a question. For some, you want to help, but you do not know your role in ending racism. Others are asking, “What happens when the protests end and we take down the Black Lives Matter signs? Will we have meaningful change? Will we have business as usual? Will any of this make a difference?” You have questions and so do we.
This is the season finale of Pod for the Cause, the official podcast of the Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights and the Leadership Conference Education Fund. This is the space where we talk about the civil and human rights issues that you are talking about. I am your guest host, Allyn Brooks-LaSure, and I am excited for the conversation we are about to have on this episode. Ashley Allison is on a break for this episode but will be back with us in a few weeks.
Now, Pod for the Cause would not be Pod for the Cause without the Pod Squad. Joining me in this conversation are three amazing guests – Barbara Florvil, Baptist Minister and Assistant to the Pastor for Youth at Alfred Street Baptist Church, Adora Andy Jenkins, Managing Director of Communications and Brand at Supermajority, and Brent Johnson, Manager of Executive Operations at The Leadership Conference.
There is no better time than now to let our voices be heard and to have an open and solution-oriented conversation around the state of our nation – from the continued police violence to the incredible protests taking place across the country. This is all due to the unfortunate and tragic death of George Floyd, but we are the ones who can create change, and we are the ones that can keep pushing the movement forward until we actually realize racial equality and justice for all. It is June of 2020, but it feels like June of 1967. How did we get here?
Adora: You know, the murder of George Floyd caught on tape is not unlike so many other murders of black men caught on video, and so, why does this one seem to resonate? And I actually was having a conversation with my husband about this last night. We don’t have the answer and I would love to find that answer, but I do think it had a lot to do with sort of this cacophony of ingredients that have come together all at one time.
And I think you cannot separate any of this from COVID-19, who is in leadership right now, in the federal level and state and local level, and you cannot separate all this intersectionality that is happening in the world right now. People out of work, the revelation to many about systemic racism as it played out with COVID-19, and who was being adversely affected, whether it was health-wise or job-wise, et cetera. It was allowing a lot of us, in talking to my friends and family, these conversations about working from home and, “Who can actually do that? What does that mean?”
Some people can get away to their farmhouses and other people are stuck in their one-bedroom apartment with six kids. I think it has just revealed all of these things to people who did not have to think about it before.
Allyn: Barbara, what do you think?
Barbara: I think it feels like 1967. It also feels like 2020. So, I think what makes it feel like 2020 is so much of what Adora said around COVID-19 amplifying where we are. So, there are protests happening, obviously, but then there is the reality that people are literally putting their lives on the line for two different viruses, right? Two different pandemics that we experience. And COVID-19 is the invisible one that we now have scientific numbers tracking, but then we also have racism.
So, the reality that people are literally putting their lives on the line to know that they can potentially die one way or the other, but they are fighting to live in the midst of all of this, I think it makes it all the more, I think a powerful movement. Knowing that people are out there, obviously hopefully with masks on, hopefully trying to create as much space between each other as possible, but the reality is that people are saying, “Look, it looks like we might die anyway. If it is not at the hand of police officers, it might be at the hand of this pandemic, and it matters to us that we are here in this moment. So, I think there is something to be said about how urgent the time is now.
Allyn: And, Brent, do you think we are in a position – do you think that this is a real tipping point? Is it a real inflection point or is this yet more of the same, more of the same, where we will have a bunch of goodwill, we will have a bunch of Black Lives Matter signs, but then we will just backslide to who we have always been? What do you think?
Brent: I think I am hopeful that this is different. And I think, if for no other reason, that just the white folks in my circle, they are talking to me differently about this issue. I imagine that the same is true for Barbara and Adora. But this feels different because it is not just black people who are talking about this. It is something to be said about seeing someone with a knee on his neck for eight minutes and 46 seconds. We have all been stuck in our houses and we are all on social media. We are all very, very tuned into what is happening on TV, so you kind of cannot look away. I think that is, in part, what has made this moment different.
But it is not just black folks who are paying attention right now and who are speaking up. And so, I hope that we can keep that momentum up, but we need white folks. We need everyone that is not black to kind of take up this cause.
Allyn: Well, you raise an interesting question, and that is, there are a lot of people right now who are saying, “I do not know what to do. I want to be an ally. I want to help. I do not want to say the wrong thing. I do not want to do the wrong thing. I will make the sign, I will go to the protest,” but what happens after people put their protest signs in the recycling bin? What do they do the next day? So, if you are a non-person of color, how are you supposed to show up in this moment to ensure we have real change?
Brent: It is paying attention to your local elections and paying attention to who is mayor, who is on your city council. Because as we know, so many of these policing specific decisions are made at the local level. So, if you are paying attention at the local level when you throw your sign in the recycling bin, call your council member. We can have a discussion about what you should say, but there are so many resources out there. But this all starts at the local level and that is what folks need to continue to do.
Adora: I love hearing that because it is almost like in the time it takes you to make a sign or find parking to get to the protest, you could have made several calls. It is an unusual thing for people to do. But so is protesting. And we know that because we did not see you all at the last protest, so we know this is new for you, so it is okay. One of the things I think white folks or non-black people of color can do – I do not mean to sound sarcastic, but a Google will reveal a lot.
Allyn: A Google. That is a series of tubes on the internet, right?
Adora: -laughter- Well, what is amazing, actually to your point, Allyn, is that it is not 1967. It is actually 2020 and there are so many resources available to people who are not black to better understand what their black colleagues, friends, and neighbors, and family members are going through right now and how they can actually help. And one of the things I find just a little frustrating, but I try to correct with love, is that you cannot just come to me and ask me all about my – I know that feels right. Like, ask me all about my experiences and, “Tell me what to do.” You got to do the work.
Allyn: “Can I touch your hair?” -laughter-
Adora: You laugh, but you know that has happened to me. I know it seems hard to want to do the work, but we were all born black, but we were not born with this knowledge. We actually sought this knowledge. We are able to talk about this because we read about it and we put it into context. So, read about it first and then come to me with that information so that when I give you my journey, my story, my experiences, you have the context with which to understand that. That it is not actually just happening to me or the three of you. Every single black person you meet has a story and I think that is one of the main things folks can do.
Allyn: What do you think, Barbara?
Barbara: Yeah, I absolutely agree with Brent and Adora. This is not a moment about having a catharsis. I think so much of the political moment can be driven right now by this idea that we are all feeling something and there will come a moment where the rubber has to hit the road. Right? I think about when Barack Obama was elected and how everyone rushed to this notion of us being in a post-racial society, right?
Allyn: Mm-hmm. How’d that work out?
Barbara: How did that work out years later? Right? The pendulum has swung all the way in the other direction, right? And that is because, I think, we have been sitting on a lot of feeling and a lot of emotion around symbolism and have not been running really with true change, and that is through voting and paying attention to what is happening locally. I am really excited about what is happening in Minneapolis, right? They are really calling themselves out. They are in a space right now where they are saying, “We are looking to defund the police.” LA is looking at – I think it is 150 million dollars – reducing the budget in the police department, right? New York is also looking to do the same with their budget.
There is change that is actually happening after the feeling, and the regret, and the guilt. So, I think a lot of what Adora was saying, around white folks feeling this pain about wanting to explore more, doing the work, a lot of it, looks like really putting your money where your mouth is. And that is withdrawing your money from places that are fueling racism and also giving money in spaces that are doing the work.
Adora: I think that is an interesting thread too, Allyn, on white guilt. Which it is like, we only want you to feel so guilty as to this be part of the eye-opening moment. We do not need you to sit with it. We need you to stand with us. We get it. Having this revelation has to sting somehow, right, because you are not who you thought you were, those kinds of thoughts. Cool. You should have those to the extent that they are actually advancing something. But stand with us. Let us do something together. Let us work through this.
And I know Allyn and I have recently had conversations just about white friends feeling uncertain how to reach out. And one of the revelations I have had in this process, which there have been many, is that honestly, being black in America means that you are constantly engaged in a series of acts of forgiveness towards non-black people. So, if you are a white person that has managed to keep a black person in your sphere, as a friend, as a colleague, somebody that will pick up the phone if you call or text them, they have already forgiven you for something, so do not be so timid as to clam up, right?
They know your heart, as we say in church, right? They know your heart. They know you mean well. You just have to be ready to receive some correction, if done with love.
Brent: And can I also just add that I am all for non-black people sitting in that discomfort because welcome to being black, right? I think part of that is actually really reckoning with, “What does it mean to actually feel this? What does it mean to actually see these videos?” Because we have been seeing them for years. We have been living with this all our lives. And so, one thing that I have been really honest with a lot of my white friends is I think I should copy and paste it on every text message, but it is literally, “Welcome to my world.” This is the pain that we feel every single time this happens.
I am glad. I hate that it took this long but I am glad something is shifting. But you should sit with that. My hope is that, to your original question, Allyn, that that spurs you to continue doing what needs to be done.
Allyn: How do we make it lasting? Right? So, I came of age with Rodney King. Right? That was, at least in my lifetime, the first viral case of police brutality with a video that played over, and over, and over again. And people said policing would never be the same after Rodney King. We would never again have this conversation because someone documented it. A guy with a camcorder actually caught it. How do we make this real? How do we make this lasting beyond just a 2020 moment of temporary sympathy and goodwill? Barbara?
Barbara: I can even think to Emmett Till, right? We did not capture the actual killing of Emmett Till, but we saw the aftermath. A mother willing to put her son’s mangled body on display for the world so that the world would know that this is real.
Allyn: That is right.
Barbara: This boy did not do this to himself, right? And only recently for us to know that the woman who put him in that position admitted to doing it on purpose.
Allyn: And lying.
Barbara: Right. To lying. The reality of the exposure, again, I think leads to catharsis, but our stories have to translate into something that is tangible. I think those are laws. Changing how we elect officials, right? Obviously in this election season a lot of our conversations end up boiling down to, “Okay, now who is actually going to represent us?” And without the institutional change to accompany the individualized revelation that this is real, that black people are scared to give birth to children in this world, there has to be a decision to make it manifest beyond ourselves.
I think it can mean defunding police departments and funding education again in the way that we should have been over the last few years. Right? As opposed to using education as a way to decide how many beds we put in prison. It is a matter of understanding that policing is not just an act, it is an ethic. It is how we see who is worthy of being safe and who is worthy of being served, and who is worthy of being criminalized. So, it is a change of thought and it is a change of how we do things in the real world in real time.
Adora: It is about politics and elections, and it is also about narrative shift. And so, if we are changing the hearts and we are changing the minds, let us start changing the words, let us start changing the narrative, let us start changing the context. Let us be honest about who has dictated this context and this narrative to us and under what circumstances. You all, I just figured out that half the songs I sang as childhood are minstrel songs. I went down a whole, whole lot right there. “Ah! Oh Susanna, all of these! They are all those songs. -laughter-
Allyn: I mean, the state song of Virginia.
Adora: Good lord. I am like, “Man, this is doing a number.” Right?
Adora: A narrative shift like what does it mean to be American, even?
Adora: This is the time and we should seize the moment, and I think if we do not, then we are at risk of what you described.
Brent: I have had some folks ask me, “What does protest get us?” And I am like, “Well, I think you need to go,” – to the earlier point – “and you need to Google, and you need to do some research.” But there is both a role for protest in terms of shifting the narrative and shifting the conversation, but also, there is so much that we can do when we vote. Not just at the presidential level, but at the local level. And voting in every single election because that is where a lot of this stuff is going to be changed. So, I think it is an inside/outside game.
Allyn: And let me ask you this because our conversation has been addled with hurt, and pain, and discomfort. But people of color, and black people in particular in this country, have gone through painful periods while still maintaining a type of joy. So, how do we maintain joy when there is so much discomfort, where there is so much hurt, where there is so much pain? How do we not lose our joy in this moment?
Adora: I do think self-preservation is important. I hear it a lot in the motherhood circles. If you cannot be whole yourself, how can you give to your family? It works here too, you know? Just taking that time to do those things that you love. Seeking out your sisterhood and your brotherhood, and I really, really want to take a minute for the brothers who might be listening. I know you all do not like to hang out with your boys that much. I know you guys are homebodies. But you have got to go seek out those other black men that you know and talk together. There is healing in that, and there is joy in that, and there is always laughter in that.
And I think that is something that black women do that we can help our brothers do a little bit better, I think.
Allyn: Brent, what do you think?
Brent: I would underline the taking care of yourself part. It is really huge. Especially for those of us who actually do this work in our nine to five, it is kind of hard, especially when you cannot leave your house. There is no separation, right, between work and home, and so it makes it even harder to really take care of yourself. But that is something that I have tried to do. And just doing small things. I also think that these Verzuz battles that have been happening over the last two or three months have been really helpful for my joy. And I have some real ideas about who could be next, but that is a good thing to keep the joy up.
Barbara: I also speak from the position of being a minister and also a youth minister. There is a scripture that says, “There is a joy that the world did not give and then the world cannot take away.” I think it is a saying that helps us to remember that this joy that we have is not contingent on what is happening in the world. As much as we are affected by all that is going on, as much as it hurts, the pain and the celebratory moments of seeing Black Lives Matter painted on the street leading up to the White House, right? As much as those things bring us –
Allyn: That was hot, by the way. -laughter-
Barbara: That was noteworthy. Those are moments that we can celebrate, but then there is also a joy that just comes with living, and existing, and knowing that we are all here for a reason and for a purpose. And racism, and sexism, and classism, and homophobia – none of those things can define why we are here or take away the fact that we are here and that we have a reason to live, breathe, move, and have our being. So, whatever joy looks like for you, hang tight to that because the world that does not want us to exist will not want us to be excited about life, will not want us to have joy. And joy is an act of resistance, to me.
Allyn: For those who are just joining us, this is Pod for the Cause, the official podcast of The Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights and The Leadership Conference Education Fund. And we have just had the Pod Squad with three amazing guests, Barbara Florvil, Minister and Assistant to the Pastor for Youth at Alfred Street Baptist Church, Adora Andy Jenkins, Managing Director of Communications and Brand at Supermajority, and Brent Johnson, Manager of Executive Operations at The Leadership Conference. Barbara, Adora, Brent, thank you for adding your voice to the cause. Coming up, we have a special guest – Iyanla Vanzant. Do not go anywhere.
Welcome back to Pod for the Cause. Today we have been talking all about the state of our nation, from the continued police violence to the incredible protests taking place across the country. We have a special guest with us today, best-selling author, producer of Fix My Life, Life Coach at Inner Visions, please welcome Iyanla Vanzant. Miss Vanzant, in your view, how did we get here, and do you think this moment will lead to lasting change in our nation?
Iyanla Oh yeah. I am so excited. I am probably [inaudible], but I did not know. I think it was in the late ‘70s, early ‘80s where the Doobie Brothers said, “You don’t know me, but I’m your brother.” They said, “I ain’t blind, but I don’t like what I think I see. Taking it to the streets.”
Iyanla You remember that?
Allyn: I do, I do.
Iyanla And so, for a long time, as black people, we have not liked what we saw, and what we experienced, and what we were feeling. But we learned how to accommodate it, how to tolerate it, how to move in it and through it, and now we are taking it to the streets. Not just because of George Floyd and the systemic racism, but because taking it to the streets, we are moving energy. People are marching, that is moving energy. People are gathering, that is moving energy. Taking it to the streets needs a physical level, a mental level, an emotional level, and a spiritual level. And nothing happens until you move on all of those levels.
Well, we have been blind. We did not like it but we did not do anything about it, and now we have taken it to the streets. I think it is so exciting. I really am excited.
Allyn: One of the things that you talked about not liking what we see, recently I noticed you took New Orleans Saint Quarterback Drew Brees to task for his criticism of Colin Kaepernick and anybody who “disrespects the flag.” And you were very specific. You said that he is like another leader who, “values the flag over the ugliness that it denies and covers.” Why has this ugliness persisted despite numerous so-called racial inflection points?
Iyanla I look at everything from a metaphysical perspective. People do not like to tell the truth about their ugliness. And so, America has not liked or been open to telling the truth about their ugliness. And the ugliness is that racism, white male superiority, capitalism was built into the fibers of this country. I have this nose because my mother is Dahomian. I have these ears because my father is [inaudible] or Cherokee. I have this hair because when the Cherokee and the African mixed, this is what it looked like. I have this skin color because … You understand?
Iyanla So, it is in my fibers.
Allyn: In the DNA.
Iyanla America has not wanted to tell the truth about that. They used the flag. Let it be about America. But America, as it was built and grounded, stripped neat, my people, my native indigenous people, of their land. It was stolen. They put all of the indigenous people in prisons called reservations. That is built into the fiber. And they do not want to acknowledge that. They brought my mother’s people and my grandmother’s people over here on a ship, and called them animals, and beat them and raped them. They do not want to tell the truth about that. So, they make it about the flag and what America stands for, and what it is.
Well, it does stand for that while it is kneeling on my neck, and sitting on my face, and telling me that I am no good. We have to be mindful because those who control the words and images control the minds of the people. So, they give you this image of the flag and make you put your hand on your chest and never know that they use the flag to cover the hundreds of thousands of black women that they raped, and the babies that they stole. Put the flag over that. Or the black men that they hung. Put the flag over that. Oh – it is about the flag. It is not about the dead black bodies, brown bodies, red bodies, laying underneath it.
So, I was very astute when he said that. “I will never tolerate anybody kneeling, disrespecting the flag.”
Iyanla Oh, it is okay for you to disrespect me, but I am not supposed to disrespect that piece of cloth, no. See, I am old enough now – I am old. -laughter-
Iyanla That I can say what I want to say. I do not worry about it anymore. I am not dependent on somebody for a job, I do not care what people think about me, and even if they think it and say it, I am too old, I forget. So, now, he was out of order. He was out of order. And I never comment on Twitter, but when I saw that, I was like, “Oh wait up. Hold up a minute.” Because my grandmother’s – my father’s mother’s people – were brutalized. My mother, my grandmother passed for black in the 1920s because it was easier to be a black person than it was to be a red person.
Iyanla Okay. Can you imagine passing for black? -laughter-
Allyn: That is the first time I ever heard of that, actually.
Iyanla I am telling you. Because her father was African, her skin was much lighter than mine, so she passed for black.
Allyn: Well, I think there are some celebrities who try to pass for black now, I think, but that is a different story, right?
Allyn: You tweeted something that I found to be intriguing. You said, “Do not tell that story again. Do not utter another syllable about the pain, the losses, unless you are ready to recover right now.” In your view, what would “recovered” look like for blacks in American, and is America ready to recover? Fix America’s life.
Iyanla -laughter- It means telling the truth. “It is not just that I hurt. It is that I hurt because… blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.” And owning your part in it. “I hurt as a black woman. As a red woman, I hurt, but I hurt because I have played your game. I have hurt because I have allowed you to disrespect me. I hurt because I did not stand up for myself because I thought I had to feed my kids, or I thought I had to do this or that.”
So, if you are not willing to tell a rotgut down in your belly truth, stand or sit in the consequences of that, and have a clear ask – that is the key, a clear ask. Say, “As a black woman, I know what I am asking for.”
Allyn: And what is your ask?
Iyanla My ask is to honor me. Do not define me, do not confine me. Honor me. I am Iyanla. Do not call me Yolanda. No. The fact that your tongue cannot equate the I and the Y together, that is not on me.
Iyanla Honor me. That is my ask. And my ask is do not lie to me. That dishonors me. Looking in my face and telling me I am equal to you. Shut your mouth. Honor me. That is my ask. Here is my ask: See my son, my black son, and my black grandson, and my black great-great grandson. See them as men and honor them. That is my ask. My ask is all the black children in the substandard schools. See them as children, viable beings, and provide them with what they need to be educated. Do not tell me that the taxes or whatever, whatever. My ask is treat all children equally. That is my ask.
So, I said, “Do not tell a story about your hurt and your pain unless you are willing to own your part and then have a clear ask for what to do about it,” because just telling the story – and yes, America – Well, if America ain’t ready, she better get ready because people have taken it to the streets and they are not coming out. This thing is getting ready to shift.
Allyn: Where do you think it goes? Where do you think all of this energy, taking it to the streets, where does it lead?
Iyanla It leads to the only thing that will change anything, which is a conversation. It leads to people calling out stuff. We are talking about the police. We better be worried about the courts because the courts have been fixed against us.
Allyn: Stacked. More than 200 judges appointed to the… mm-hmm.
Iyanla Uh-huh. I believe it leads to conversations. And I do not want us to be deluded into thinking that it is only going to be one conversation. There have to be many conversations on many levels. And those conversations have to begin in our homes. They have to begin in our homes so that when we go out, we are standing as a united front and we understand. Then they have to begin in our churches. They have to begin in our classrooms. They have to begin in our boardrooms. There have to be a lot of conversations because everything begins with a conversation.
Allyn: So much of the discourse and a lot of what we have been talking about has been about the varied pain, the tragedy, the loss, and this discomfort that we have been talking about. Yet, black Americans in this country and people of color at large, but specifically black Americans, some of our greatest creative genius was conceived in the womb of heartache and strife. What advice would you have for people, particularly for those taking it to the streets right now, for how to find joy and healing amid so much suffering?
Iyanla I would say another song title. I am in the music today, forgive me.
Allyn: -laughter- Hey, have church. Have church.
Iyanla There is a song that says, “Our worship is shifting the atmosphere.” It is shifting the atmosphere. Do not think because it is not happening today that it is not going to happen. Continue to pray, continue to meditate, continue to affirm. Our praise is shifting the atmosphere. Our marching is shifting the atmosphere. Our unity is shifting the atmosphere. Our conversations are shifting the atmosphere. And in that process, some of us are going to be sacrificed.
Thank you, George Floyd. We owe you a debt of gratitude. Thank you, Breonna Taylor. We owe you a debt of gratitude. Thank you, Ahmaud Arbery. We owe you a debt of gratitude. And all of the other ones. Because we did not stay on it when it was Trayvon. We did not stay on it when it was Eric. We did not stay on it when it was Sandra. But we shifted the atmosphere and now we have hit that critical mass where we have taken it to the streets to wake everybody up. Oh, I could just go on…
Allyn: But you just… -laughter- My final question for you – and thank you so much for your time – if you wrote a book about the times that we are in, what is the title of the final chapter?
Iyanla Accountability. We have to be held accountable for what we think, what we say, what we do, and how we be. How we be. Accountability: do what you say you are going to do. Accountability: be willing to answer for what you have done. Accountability: what are the consequences of the choices, and the intentions, and the decisions that you made? We are calling you into account. Accountability. Because we, as everyday people, we have to become accountable. We cannot just whine, and moan, and complain. We got to be held accountable for what we did not do, what we did not say, where we did not go, when we did not march, when we did not vote. We got to be held accountable for that.
As white people, you got to be held accountable that you bought these thousand-dollar custom rugs and swept everything up under there. How you treated me, how you talked to me, how you saw me, how you looked at me, you swept it under the rug. Accountability. White male superiority and domination that you call the college degree. I got degrees I do not even know where they are, and you still ask me why am I in the first-class line in the airport. Accountability. Why are our children being under-educated? What are we parents doing and not doing?
Accountability. Daddies, come home and get your children so that they do not end up in the modern-day slave ship called the prison. Accountability. Women, why are you sleeping with men and having children with them and you do not even know their momma’s name? Accountability. I am talking across the board.
Iyanla Accountability. That would be the title of my book.
Allyn: -laughter- Well, that is a perfect place for us to end it, on a line of accountability. Thank you so very much, Miss Vanzant, for your time today. Thank you. We honor you, we respect you, and we appreciate the wisdom that you brought with us today.
Iyanla Thank you for asking me. It is my honor.
Allyn: Coming up: Can I Get a Witness? Where you will hear my thoughts on what is going on.
Welcome back to Pod for the Cause, where we have been talking about the state of our nation and the serious events surrounding the killing of George Floyd. Now before I say goodbye to you today, there are a couple of things I want to say.
We have been here before. With Emmett Till, Rodney King, Trayvon Martin, The Charleston Nine. We have been here before. We go through the same routine, we have the same goodwill, we shed the same tears, we eulogize the same bodies, we bury the same dreams. We have been here before.
And the question that is wrestling with my spirit is, “Are we going to be here again?” We do not need another racial inflection point in this country. We have had plenty of those. This has to be it. This has to be the last racial inflection point, a tipping point that actually leads us in the direction of justice. I caution people, do not try to ride out this storm. Do not just do the bare minimum. Do not just say what you need to say to get by. Do not just put up the sign because you think that is the polite thing to do. Do not ride out this storm.
Use this opportunity to create a storm. Create a storm of justice. Create a storm of healing. Create a storm of equality. And create a storm of love. This is Allyn Brooks-LaSure for Pod for the Cause. Thank you for joining us today.
Thanks for listening to Season 2 of Pod for the Cause, the official podcast of The Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights and The Leadership Conference Education Fund. We will be back with Season 3 very soon, but in the meantime, visit civilrights.org to learn all of the ways to stay involved with the movement. And to connect with us, visit us on Instagram and Twitter at Pod for the Cause. And be sure to text “Podcasts,” that’s podcasts with a plural ‘s’ to 2-1-3-3-3 to get updates from us right on your phone. Be sure to subscribe to our show on your favorite podcast app and leave a five-star review.
Until then, for Pod for the Cause, I am Allyn Brooks-LaSure. Stay strong and keep hope alive.