S08 E2: The Ballot & The Book: Access to Voting and Education Upon Selma’s 60th

Episode Transcript

Kanya Bennett
Welcome to Pod for the Cause, the official podcast of the Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights and the Leadership Conference Education Fund, where we take on the critical civil and human rights issues of our day. I’m your host, Kanya Bennett, coming to you from our nation’s capital, Washington DC. 60 years ago on the Edmund Pettus Bridge in Selma, Alabama, history was written in blood and courage. On March 7th, 1965, what became known as Bloody Sunday, 600 peaceful protesters set out to march for voting rights. They were met with brutal violence from state troopers, but their sacrifice ignited a movement, leading to the passage of the Voting Rights Act of 1965. Today, the fight continues, not just at the ballot box, but in the classroom. Education and voting rights have always been intertwined. For decades, literacy tests and other barriers were used to suppress Black voters. Now, book bans, curriculum restrictions, and misinformation are shaping political participation, especially for young and marginalized communities. Education itself is on the ballot with school board elections, policies on diversity and inclusion, and funding decisions determining what future generations learn about history, democracy, and their civil rights. Also coinciding with the 60th anniversary of Bloody Sunday, are efforts at the federal level to dismantle the Department of Education and efforts to roll back protections for our students, deepen educational disparities, and deny quality equitable education to most. In this episode, we explore the legacy of Selma, the ongoing threats to both voting and education, and how we can honor those who marched by taking action today. Joining me for today’s episode are three civil rights champions who are fresh from celebrating the 60th anniversary of Bloody Sunday, and are ready to fight during this dark time. Let me first welcome former Alabama State Senator Hank Sanders. Senator Sanders is an attorney and politician who served in the Alabama Senate from 1983 until 2018, but is still our senator. Senator, welcome to Pod for the Cause.

Senator Hank Sanders
Thank you so much. Let me just briefly say, I was on the last leg of the Selma to Montgomery March in 1965 on March the 25th. And the thing I just remember so much is Dr. King saying, ” How long? Not long.” And I thought not long was months. And then, in 1966, I went to Lowndes County to help the Lowndes County Freedom Organization. The county was 70 to 80% Black, we didn’t elect anybody. I began to realize that it was biblical, not just the usual timeframe. And here we are 60 years later, still fighting for the right to vote, the right of equal education, the right of fairness in every kind of way, the right of justice. That’s what the’60s was about.

Kanya Bennett
Thank you, Senator. Let me next introduce Dr. Cassandra Simon, Associate Professor at the University of Alabama School of Social Work. Hello, Dr. Simon.

Dr. Cassandra Simon
Hello. Thank you for the opportunity to share.

Kanya Bennett
And last but not least, and a returning guest to Pod for the Cause, we have Tanya Clay House representing the African- American Policy Forum. Tanya also served in the Obama administration as the Deputy Assistant Secretary for P- 12 Education in the Office of Planning, Evaluation and Policy Development at the US Department of Education. Welcome back, Tanya.

Tanya Clay House
Thank you so much, Kanya. It’s a pleasure to be here with you all today, and distinguished guest, our forever senator, as you said, Senator Sanders, as well as Dr. Simon. So thank you so much for allowing me to be here.

Kanya Bennett
Thank you, Tanya. So with everyone back from Selma, I would love to hear some brief reflections, just a minute on your experience, your inspiration from commemorating the 60th anniversary of Bloody Sunday? Senator Sanders, let me go to you and let me hear your accounting.

Senator Hank Sanders
I have been involved with every single Bridge Crossing Jubilee since 1992. And I’ve been involved with Bridge Crossings in Selma for 50 some years. My perspective is probably muddled, because when you have that many, they all kind of run together. And the Bridge Crossing Jubilee has dozens of events. And so when you are helping to put something on, quite often, you’re running from one thing to another one. But the 60th was very, very powerful. The march was powerful, the workshops were powerful, the events was powerful, but it just reminded me again of how much we are losing and how much we have to continue to fight, not only to maintain, but to expand voting rights, to expand education, to expand justice. You’d have to see that site with all of them, tens of thousands of folks crossing that bridge. It’s always an inspiring site. Many people come and many of them may not go to a single workshop, but they all want to either cross the bridge, or be near it, as people are marching, and on their way to it, and crossing it. It’s an inspiring site, that’s why it’s just so important that we continue the Bridge Crossing Jubilee every year.

Kanya Bennett
Thank you for that reflection, Senator Sanders, and love to hear about your connection for decades to the Bridge Crossing Jubilee. So, Dr. Simon, let me hear a little bit about your motivation coming from the celebration?

Dr. Cassandra Simon
I experienced the celebration this year vicariously through my students. I was so proud of my students. I have been living in Alabama for 25 years, and I did not know about the jubilee when I first moved here. In the course of my learning more about, which speaks to the Black education that we have, because no matter what state I live in, I should have had that knowledge during my education, because of its significance, and what resulted in the Voting Rights Act, as a result of that incident. But when I got here, and learned about it, and started teaching my students, I was shocked to find out that they were raised right here in Alabama, and they had no idea what it was. So it became a part of what I decided would be an opportunity for me to use that history to educate students about advocacy and activism, about the sacrifices that others made for them, about the significance of the event. And so, one of the things I had the students do is we watched the documentary series, Eyes on the Prize. And I can’t make them watch the whole thing, but we go up through episode six, that ends with Bloody Sunday and the success that came from that. From that, I started organizing my students to go. We go to the jubilee. We’ve gone just about every year since I’ve been here. A group of students, we caravan together. The last couple of years, Senator Sanders, you’ll be happy to know, that not only did they… Because we get no funding to do it or anything, they actually drove up there on Saturday to attend some workshops. So it wasn’t even just the Bridge Crossing. They attended some of the other events. And then they went back the next day and did the crossing, and that just inspired them. I’d done a traveling civil rights class, where we’ve gone to multiple states. Alabama has a whole history in and of itself, but I have used the jubilee, and its history, and its experience, to transform students into being more civically engaged, more concerned about their history and how we got here. And especially, in these current times, examining and looking at what is on the line for us to lose as a society. We go every year. I take a group of students up there from the University of Alabama. Even though I couldn’t go with them this year, they went by themselves on these two days. And they sent me their pictures and everything. And so I experienced it this year vicariously through them.

Kanya Bennett
That is great, Dr. Simon. And that certainly counts. And I am really trying to live vicariously through you all, and through your students, Dr. Simon. Next year we will all commit to connecting at the jubilee, so I will hold everyone to that. And I need to get on this traveling civil rights class. So I’ll circle back with you post- episode about that. But Tanya, you were in Alabama. Talk to us about what you felt, what you experienced, how you may be motivated coming from the jubilee, coming from commemorating the 60th anniversary of Bloody Sunday.

Tanya Clay House
I was in Alabama. I was a part of a meeting that occurred with a lot of the civil rights leaders who had come together, particularly surrounding the recent executive orders. Like Dr. Simon, I unfortunately had a conflict for some of the other activities that were occurring over the weekend. However, I was managing a number of things and working with our co- founder and president of the African- American Policy Forum, Dr. Kimberly Crenshaw, who was there and making sure that everything was taken care of. And I remember studying Dr. Crenshaw in law school. We first became friends and got together through Selma, as I was organizing, again, efforts for the lawyers’ committee for the 50th anniversary. And I have pictures of Dr. Crenshaw and I dancing on the Edmund Pettus Bridge, and commemorating. It does come full circle. And so what I will just say, because I know that there’s a lot more we want to converse about, is that I appreciate all the work that goes into putting together the jubilee. And so, thank you Senator Sanders. Thank you to everyone who is always committed to making sure that this takes place, even when it’s not a major decade. So every year this occurs. What I wish is that there’ll be the day when we no longer have to keep talking about how far we have to go. But it’s not there. And in fact, right now we’re at a point where we’ve gone significant steps backwards. And so I think it was even much more necessary for this commemoration to occur, to remind people about the history, to remind people, our kids, as Dr. Simon was saying, that are not learning it, because right now that’s the goal, to erase our history, so they don’t understand and don’t know what this was about. It’s even more important to ensure that we understand the connectivity between what occurred back then and what is occurring now, and connect the dots as to how it is that we’ve got to make sure that we don’t allow this country to go backwards in a way that was even worse than what our ancestors, everyone was dealing with in 1965 and before. So those are the memories, those are the things that come to mind for me. And I’m very appreciative of all the work and the efforts that go into making sure that we have this conversation, because it’s not happening in all corners. And particularly with our younger generations, we need to make sure that they understand, because it’s their future, also, that we’re fighting for.

Kanya Bennett
Thank you so much for that reflection, Tanya. And that actually gets me back to you, Senator Sanders. Tanya talked about, and you also mentioned, all of the programming, all of the happenings there every year during the jubilee. I want to talk to you about a partnership, Senator Sanders, that you had with the leadership conference this anniversary. You helped assemble a program called Saving Democracy: Our Civil Rights Strategies for This Unprecedented Moment. Can you talk to us about it? What was it all about?

Senator Hank Sanders
Just before I do that, with your permission, I would like to point out that African- Americans have a peculiar relationship with history. And because of that peculiar relationship with history, we find it almost impossible to get schools to deal with this history of this last 60 years. We fight all the time just to get children to be able to march across the bridge. They were going to deny the children the right to march across there. They were going to let the congresspeople march across, but not the children, because every year that’s a powerful experience for these school children. And we had the congresspeople, particularly Congressman Clyburn, and then Congresswoman Sewell join in, just to be able to march across, because it has a powerful impact on them. But now to your question, in Alabama, we had about a three- hour session, and we call it Piecing the Unity Puzzle. This was a couple of months ago, and this was in response to all of the things that are happening. All of these organizations, about 21 organizations came together. And each one of them stood up, and in three minutes, talked about the piece of the puzzle they had, and how they would put it together with the other pieces to be able to forge justice, and to be able to forge unity, and to be able to improve education, and to be able to maintain democracy. I looked up on this partnership with the Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights as a continuation of that. And the idea was that you both had to have it from the national level, but you also have to have it from the state level, and also from the local level. I’m just greatly appreciative of my interaction with Maya, Wiley, and others to be able to do that. I thought it was very, very instructive because, in each of the several areas you had a national person and then you had a state person, a local person, because all of those things work together. And I just want to tell one little story. The reason that’s so important is, I was with a group and they were talking about what the Democrats ought to do on the national level. At some particular point, it became too much for me, and I said, ” Well, what do we do on the local level? Don’t each one of us have a responsibility to participate?” Once the conversation shifted to involvement of everybody, everybody having a piece of the puzzle, because that was an underlying theme of this particular conference, it changed the entire situation, the entire moment, because we have to get over the point that every one of us have a responsibility and a duty. This conference helped to move that concept forward.

Dr. Cassandra Simon
I actually love that conceptualization, Senator Sanders, because it puts the responsibility on all of us. And some of us may have larger pieces of the puzzle than other people have, but we all contribute to the building of that puzzle. I really love that analogy.

Kanya Bennett
Absolutely. And thank you for hopping in there, Dr. Simon. That has me thinking about the activism that you are pursuing, the accountability that you are seeking around SB 129. We’re talking about these connections between local, state, and federal. And Senator Sanders talked about why it is so critical for us all to work in concert together, and we’re seeing that with attacks on diversity, equity, inclusion, and accessibility. And you are at the center of some good trouble, Dr. Simon, around SB 129. So Alabama has an effort underway to ban books, to prohibit classroom instruction. Your course has been one that has been subjected to critique and prohibition. Talk to us a little bit about SB 129. What is happening there in Alabama? And then we’ll connect that to what we’re seeing at the federal level.

Dr. Cassandra Simon
Well, it definitely is all connected. I just want to be clear that I didn’t ask for this. They brought it to me, by denying my students who had worked on a project an entire semester, and then the project was they had organized a sit- in on the quad. I felt so bad. They had T- shirts and had been working with other groups, and it was to talk about the effects that SB 129 had already had on them in the short period law went into effect. As you know, the university made them cancel it, like two hours before the event. And threatened me with some verbiage from the faculty handbook about progressive disciplinary action, up to and including termination. I wrote the provost and the dean back and told them I did not appreciate the threat, and we might just have to take that hit and see where it lands. Actually, I was contacted by the NAACP Legal Defense Fund asking if I would be interested in being a plaintiff on a lawsuit. And the actual person who initially contacted the ACLU and the National Legal Defense Fund was another professor who showed a video in her class that I use in my class, entitled Slavery By Another Name, that talks about the peonage system, and convict labor, and that kind of thing. They actually made her go through her entire syllabus and do some things too. And so that’s how we all got connected. And so right now, where we are, we filed the complaint, and then filed an injunction, because as you know, it can take years for the actual complaint to go through the actual legal process. What we have done now is we filed an injunction for immediate relief, and the university has just responded to the injunction. There is an Alabama. com article that, really, I started laughing. People don’t understand it. Because part of the way the university responded, and this is not an exact quote, but towards the end it will be, one of the ways that they responded to the injunction and what was being said was that, as a private citizen, I can say anything I want. And we all know that stuff. But the way it put it that when I’m in the classroom, I can’t say what I want to say, because they said that’s their time on the state’s dime. I mean, that was legally how they actually wrote it in their response. When I saw that, I actually started laughing. And I was like, ” Oh.” I probably shouldn’t have sad this, but I did. I was like, ” I wonder if they know Beyonce.” << You must not know about me. You must not know about me. >> Because you will not control. Just because I work for you does not mean that you own me and what I can say. And so, how can I even teach effectively if I have to be concerned about only seeing things that the university would approve of? It’s crazy. And so now the Legal Defense Fund has to have their response for the injunction from the university back to the court by the 24th of March. And so that’s where we are with that case right now.

Kanya Bennett
Thank you, Dr. Simon. Tanya, let me go to you. I know we’re talking about some of the present day harms, but Dr. Simon mentioned Slavery By Another Name, which makes me want to back up and touch on the history a little bit here. Certainly, we see the different ways in which slavery evolved into Jim Crow, evolved into other forms of modern- day disenfranchisement. Slavery By Another Name is focused on the criminal legal system. But I want to talk about voting. And I want to ask you about some of the continued efforts to disenfranchise the Black vote in particular there. Can you talk to us a little bit about how Black people were prevented from voting through literacy tests, poll taxes, and other barriers that are very much about denying education to folks so that you could then deny the right to vote to folks?

Tanya Clay House
Sure. And thank you for all the other comments. Thank you for explaining what’s been going on there, Dr. Simon, you’re not alone. There are so many professors, as you indicated, that are facing challenges as a result of the attempts to erase our history. And I say our history because it’s not just Black history, it’s our history, it’s American history. That’s actually going to undermine the advancement of this entire country. And sadly, that’s not understood by those who are attempting to do this, because they only see those that look like them and are in the same socioeconomic status. They only see themselves, and they’re not considering and understanding that we are all connected, and that we’re all God’s children. So with that point, let me just talk about how you’re right, voting rights, education, it’s all connected. One of the reasons that there has been an attack, the first executive orders that were coming out were attack on diversity, equity, and inclusion. And to be very clear about really what this is about, it’s not simply saying, ” We’re attacking all initiatives engaged in diversity, equity, and inclusion,” this is an attack on the entire civil rights structure and infrastructure. This is an attack on Blackness, just being Black, living while Black. This is an attack on anyone who was not a white male with privilege. That’s what this is. And the right to vote was fought for so hard because it has been fundamental within this country to have an ability to speak for yourself through your leaders, through those that are representing you, to be able to say, ” No, this is how it is. We want this country to move forward. These are the things that we are concerned about.” Not everybody is going to be a senator like Senator Sanders. That’s how this democracy is established within the United States. And so you elect your leaders, you elect your leaders in the local, on the state, on the federal level. So it’s not just the president. That right to vote is fundamental to being able to have a say in how it is that you are being led, and how wealth, how funding, how education, how things are being distributed within this country. The literacy tests, having to count the number of jelly beans in a can, having to read books, volumes of paper, and give an explanation according to who it is that is monitoring at that particular time, at the voting place, those are all efforts to discriminate and to stop those that look like myself, and I will probably say, African- American woman, or African- American man, or anyone that, again, is not a white male with privilege, with land, from being engaged in the vote. Sadly, we are continuing to fight these things today, it’s just a different version. Some call it Jim Crow Part Two, call it the Son of Jim Crow. It just never stops. It continues in different variations. We’ve been dealing with, and you know this, Kanya, voter ID. That came about as another way of creating a poll tax, because it forced people to get a particular type of ID in order to vote. That requires money expended. That is illegal. That should not happen. That is a fundamental right. You should not have to expend money in order to exercise your fundamental right. Should not be discriminated against for being able to exercise that. These connections between education and voting are real because, understand the Voting Rights Act, and the Civil Rights Act, the Department of Education were all established within years of each other. They were all established during the Civil Rights movement. The Department of Education was established in order to help alleviate the vast under- education that was occurring, particularly in communities of color, Black communities, those that had not been afforded the ability to have an equal opportunity, what we call FAPE, fair and appropriate education. That is something that I think many people don’t realize, the connection between the Department of Education, and education, period, public education, and the right to vote. These were things that all are related, because people, if you don’t understand how our country is established, and how it works, then they can continue to deny you the ability to be engaged, because you don’t know what you’re missing. And so this same thing is happening now, which is why the efforts with the executive orders are being put forward, in order to undermine the ability of people to get an education, understand our history. Dr. Crenshaw is targeted because of critical race theory, the very theory that I learned in law school, critical race theory, and also the intersectionality, how all things are connected. This made me feel and understand how it is I exist in this society today. But these are the things others don’t want you to understand. Because if you do understand it, then you have power. And power is exercised through that right to vote and through your education. So those are intimately connected, and it’s something that we have to continue to not just have the conversation, but to teach people, and to help them to move, and engage, and to make sure that we are able to protect what it is, the rights are that we should have in this country.

Dr. Cassandra Simon
Tonya, thank you for that, because you are absolutely right. And that’s one of the things that, this bill, SB 129, it is targeting us educating students about the past, about how this country has formed, about how rights have been achieved. And I’ll tell you one thing, when these students watch and see real footage of what happened in the’50s and’60s, they are shocked. Senator Sanders, these students have no idea of what it was like back then. They think it was just people being mean to one another. But when they actually see the documentary and hear the way in which Black people were openly spoken to, and treated, and beaten, white and Black students, all students, they get angry that they weren’t taught this. They were like, ” Well, how didn’t we know this? We knew that Blacks weren’t treated right, but we didn’t know that they went through this.” They don’t know about Bull Connor, and they don’t know about Jimmy Lee Jackson, and they don’t know any of this stuff. I mean, they are shocked. And one of the things that Eyes on the Prize does good, and I wish I could show them the whole series, is it shows actual footage of everything, of people talking about people, of how Little Rock Nine were treated, about the University of Alabama and its integration. How about they don’t even know that, and they’re attending that university, and they don’t know that that was one of the pivotal moments for the whole nation. And I think voting is so important, I actually give my students extra credit points if they can just upload and show that they are registered to vote. I don’t need to know your party or anything, but you have to exercise your right to vote. And I think what many people would say, to you, Tonya, is that, ” Well, so many people are not voting.” First of all, that has to do with the lack of education in part, and feeling that they don’t have power, even with the vote. And so we have to do a better job of helping them see that connection. But beyond that, everybody should have the choice to decide with ease if they want to vote or not. And so, to use the fact that a lot of people are not voting, especially people of color in some states, to try to use that as an argument to continue disenfranchisement of the right to vote, and to do that with ease and access, is absolutely ridiculous, which is an argument that I have been hearing lately. So thank you for that connection.

Senator Hank Sanders
History is powerful because it tells us where we were, and it really tells us where we are now. And it tells us more importantly, where we can go. When we take our history, whether good, bad, or ugly, and stand on it, we are able to see farther, and we’ll be able to reach higher. And because of our history with slavery, we try to shut out history. Powerful white people use history all the time to be able to stand on, not only on the history for them, but they’re able to stand on us and our history. And history is peculiar, because, if you don’t stand on it, it will end up standing on you. My mother had a peculiar saying, she said, ” History is like a bad dog. If you come up on a bad dog, he start growling and everything. But if you stand there and stare him in the face, after a while, he’ll stop growling and slick away. But if you run from him, he’ll chase you down, and bite you all over, and do all kind of things.” And Black folks tend to run from our history, because so much of it is painful, so much of it was struggle. We have a tremendous problem with Black teachers, Black principals, Black superintendents, to get that history in the school even before they start trying to ban it in one way or another. And I don’t know how to be able to make that difference, because we going to need the history. And one last point on that, voting was always an issue of power. Education is an issue of power, but we don’t see it as an issue of power, but voting. So if you go back and look at the so- called Reconstruction, you will see that the 13th Amendment was freeing the enslaved people. The 14th Amendment was various other rights. The last one was voting rights. And if you look at the 1960s, you will see that voting, again, was the last one in 1965, even though in 1963, all of these other things dealing with segregation. The opposite of diversity, equity, and inclusion is segregation. That’s what they’re saying. Quite often, they don’t say diversity, equity, and inclusion. They say DEI, because DEI can be something fearful, or unknown, or whatever. They are literally talking about going back to the segregation. And at 83 years of age, I grew up in segregation. I know what it’s like firsthand. I know I don’t want to go back. And I know other folks don’t want to go back, even though they don’t know about it, and don’t know they don’t want to go back.

Kanya Bennett
Thank you, Senator Sanders. Tanya, I know you wanted to jump in too, and I think respond to something that Dr. Simon said, and probably Senator Sanders now.

Tanya Clay House
I appreciate all of that context. I just wanted to reiterate what, actually, Senator Sanders just said. Education is power and voting is power. Anything that is powerful, that’s what they’re going after. What is happening in this country right now is about fear and about maintenance of power. So whatever it is that will enable certain people to maintain their power, they want to make sure that those that look like me, like Senator Sanders, any other, does not have that ability. So that’s education, that’s voting, that’s actually economic viability. It’s so many things. That is what they’re going after, in many ways, because that is what’s happening in this country. The connections between education and between voting are powerful in that manner because you can’t take somebody’s education away. Once you learn it, you have it. It’s always within you. It’s a matter of how you are able to utilize that education. They can do that. They can try to stop us from being able to utilize that education within certain arenas. Similarly, that right to vote, they can try to discriminate and prevent people from having access to the ballot. May have the right to vote, but they’re going to still try to stop you from having access to the ballot. Move polling places, put other types of barriers in front of you, like voter ID. Not even allow people to give you water as you’re waiting at the polling places, after they’ve closed other polling places, so you have two- hour lines and you’re waiting in the hot sun. I mean, these are the types of things that are being done. But the education is critical in this regard, because this, as continually as being said, that if we don’t understand the kids are not learning what our history is and how people fought, that’s what’s really important too. How people fought, and the types of strategies they learned, and engaged in. The fight for Brown v. Board of Education was a multi- tiered strategy that began years before. Right? I went to University of Texas School of Law. I know Sweat v. Painter. There were test cases that were used in the beginning, in order to understand how it is that the legal strategies that were going to be utilized in Brown v. Board. I was in my law school class, I was with the grandson of Charles Hamilton Houston. All right? I understand how that history evolves and the importance of it. But see, this is what others don’t want you to understand. They don’t want you to understand how it is that our people, Black people, have fought back, because that’s powerful. Because then you don’t know what to do. You think that all is lost, as they’re trying to take that away from us. That’s why these connections are necessary. That’s why we have to make sure that we’re educating. And one last thing I’ll say, one of the points that I wanted to get to about people not thinking that the vote matters, and that’s why they’re not going to vote, it’s also people are not being taught how our democracy works. Many schools do not teach civics in class. They haven’t. And the little things like that, understanding how a bill becomes law, they’re not being taught that. And so therefore, it’s very easy for people to think that, oh, my vote doesn’t matter, because they don’t understand the connections. Yes, I blame so many. So we can put the blame game in a lot of different places. At the same time, we are going to have to just roll up our sleeves and continue to do what we’ve always done, which is supplement and teach what is not being taught, because we are survivors. That’s who we are. And we’re going to have to continue to teach others how to be survivors. Because mind you, other cultures, others that have been discriminated against, learned from Black people about how to continue to fight and not give up, and saw, and have taken our own strategies. So we can’t stop doing what it is that we have always done, which has been the leaders in this, and not give up. I’ve got to teach my kids, because they’re not getting that in school. They’re learning about Martin Luther King. They’re not allowed to learn about Malcolm X. They’re not allowed to learn about Frederick Douglass, apparently. And with the right Black people, there are so many things that are not permitted, and that we’ve always had to make sure that we engage, and make sure they understand American history.

Kanya Bennett
Absolutely, Tanya. So let me bring us to our action items moving forward, our calls to action. So Tanya, you talked about this a little bit. Let me just make sure you are good with the charge that you want to leave the audience with. I know you talked about some of this ownership that we are just going to have to take, in terms of educating ourselves, our families, our communities. How do we move forward together to protect voting rights, ensure access to education, and ultimately save our democracy?

Tanya Clay House
I would add to this, this point here, is that we also have to be honest about what is happening. You got the African- American Policy Forum. We’re about to have a strategic convening, and we’re also engaging with our other partners, both on multiple levels in academia and the civil rights space, with our friends, with the education unions, everyone, in order to have the conversation. Not just the conversation, but to develop specific strategies for continuing this fight and moving forward. But then, also, make sure that as we’re engaging in creating these strategies, it is centered around the understanding that, like I said before, that this is an attack on the entire civil rights infrastructure, and also an attack on Blackness. This is actually about white supremacy in action. This is what’s going on. And that we’ve got to not be afraid to call that out. A lot are concerned about that. And it’s like, well, look at what’s happening. Look who is being pardoned. This is an attempt to create authoritarian regime. We know, because I know my history, that that is how the certain… Well, let me just, I’ll say it, that’s how the Holocaust began, because people didn’t think it was going to hit them, because they said, ” Oh, it’s not me. It’s not going to affect me.” And then, by the time it came to their doorstep, it was too late. And that’s how it began, because people ignored it because it wasn’t impacting them individually. And we have to make it plain to people that this is you. It might be your next door neighbor right now, but it will be you tomorrow. And you cannot sit by idly, and think that you are not going to be impacted, and be selfish, because that’s what the others, those on the right, that’s what they’re relying upon, that people aren’t going to care about their others, and be their brothers, be their sister’s keeper. And so that’s why we’ve got to have the charge about calling this out for what it is, that this is an attack on our civil rights structure. This is about anti- blackness, this is about ensuring that we don’t have the power, in order to be able to exist in this country at all, and turning back the clock in a way in order so that only certain people can maintain their power. And so that charge is real, and I think that it will continue to engage in that charge of the African- American Policy Forum, and with all of our partners, and with everybody here today. So thanks for that opportunity, Kanya.

Kanya Bennett
Thank you, Tanya. Dr. Simon, let me move to you. What is your charge? What is your recommendation, in terms of how we move forward, given all that we’re in, given all that we’ve discussed this episode?

Dr. Cassandra Simon
I can amen everything that Tanya just said. I mean, I can amen. I could have amened throughout every point she made. Every point she made, I could have amened it, amened it, amened it, so I won’t repeat it. One of the things that I will say we need to do, one thing is within the context of higher education. I have been in higher education for 30 years. Never in my life have I seen it like this. People are scared. I’m talking full professors with tenure. They won’t speak up, they won’t say anything because of this new bill. There’s a small group that is pushing back, within the context of higher education. It is time for them to realize that we cannot just sit back and wait and see what is going to be dictated to us. Right now, academic freedom is on the line, freedom of speech is on the line, the right to assembly is on the line, equal access for everybody, especially our students, is on the line. Overall, I will say this, while I have seen some really phenomenal people who have moved up the ladder, in terms of leadership, and economics, and all of that, speak out and maintain their integrity, what I have seen from many who think they have made it, who think that they are a part of the club now, is a complacent silence. And I see that even within my own institution. Those who we support it to get in administrative positions, people of color, Black people, are now saying nothing. They’ve become the mouthpiece. And when they say things, it’s the mouthpiece of the institution. I’m like, oh my goodness, we fought for you to get this position. So you get to the table, but then it is if you’re not at the table representing who you’re supposed to be representing. We have to be more honest about that too, and call out those people, and let them know what we expect from them. So we have to do that, not only within academia and higher education, but across the board. Remember, we got you there, we can take you out there too. And if you are looking for, and I’m not like a white versus Black kind of person thing, but if you are looking for those white people to stand there and support you, for the most part, you’re not going to get that, because that is why we are not getting the things we need now from our legislators. People are protecting themselves, and they’re protecting white male, white supremacy, and patriarchy. That is what they are supporting now. We have to push back at every level, in how we live our daily lives, in how we spend our precious time, connecting with our community, becoming more civically engaged, educating people, having conversations with one another. So there are things that we can all do, even within our daily living, that can push this agenda forward.

Kanya Bennett
Thank you, Dr. Simon. And Senator Sanders, let me have you close us out. Where do we go from here?

Senator Hank Sanders
My mother had 13 children and we lived in this three- room house. And nine of the children, and mother and a father, there was 11. And I don’t mean a three- bedroom house, I mean a three- room house, kitchen, a middle room, and a front room. But when things got real bad, she would sit in the one chair we had and make us sit on the floor in front of her. Then she would say, ” Children, things are always kind of bad with this big poor family,” she said, ” but they’re real bad now.” And then she would go silent and make us focus in on her. She said, ” But don’t y’all worry, I’m at my best when things get bad.” And that was so powerful for us, because she was at her best, but she was inviting us to be at our best when things got bad. And all of her children grew up thinking that we could be at our best when things get bad. And things are getting bad now, so we have to be at our best. That’s one. Number two, it’s important for us to know that we not only been through something like this, but we’ve been through something worse. And when we know that, we know that we can deal with whatever comes. And it’s important for us to know that we are not just in something, we are going through something. Because whenever you’re going through it, you have hope of getting to the other side. When you just feel like you in it, then you feel like there’s no hope. You just take the storm as it comes. The third thing I said is, we have to develop our own means of communication. That’s why this podcast and other podcasts are so important. We can’t depend on news stories. We can’t depend on television. We can’t depend on other things. We got to develop our own forms of communication, because when you speak up too strongly in other things, then like Joy Reed, you’re no longer around. So we have to be able to do that. And the last thing I want to say is that it is so important for every one of us to know that there is something for us to do. And that’s why I challenge everybody to not only say what the ones at the top ought to do, but what each one of us ought to do. Just a little quick story on that. My mother used to cook everything Thanksgiving, all the children would come together. And my mother would cook all of the food. So we’d all come in and eat. And we would be critical of this meal, or that meal, or the other meal. Not meal, but dish. And then, whenever she could no longer do it, we would gather, but each one of us would bring a dish. And because each one of us brought a dish, nobody could talk about anybody else’s dish because they might talk about the dish that they brought. It was a very powerful thing, that concept of everybody having a responsibility there. So we would all bring our dishes, and there was always more food than we could eat. There was more variety than which my mother cooked. But it was an important lesson for all of us. So my challenge is to challenge everybody to put their piece on. And I think Coretta King put it, she said, ” Every generation,” this may not be her exact word, but she said, ” Every generation has their responsibility to fight for justice, and to fight for democracy, and to fight for equity.”

Kanya Bennett
Thank you, Senator Sanders. That’s exactly what we needed to hear, what our listeners needed to hear. Thank you so much, Senator Sanders, for being on Pod for the Cause today.

Senator Hank Sanders
Thank you for giving me this opportunity to share with y’all and to listen to y’all/

Kanya Bennett
Dr. Simon, thank you for being with us today.

Dr. Cassandra Simon
You are very welcome, and thank you. I really enjoyed this conversation. I don’t get to have these kinds of conversations often with people outside of my immediate realm. So I just really enjoyed and learned a lot from the other panelists as well. And got some validation from them too. It’s important to know that you’re not out there alone, and that people are thinking the same way, because I often times feel so isolated and alone in the work that I’m doing, because there are not a lot of people willing to be vocal and out there like that. And so this was just re- energizing for me, and I just really appreciate the opportunity, thank you, and what it has done for me.

Kanya Bennett
Thank you, Dr. Simon. I feel the same way. And, Tanya, thanks for coming back and talking with us today, sharing so much knowledge and insight.

Tanya Clay House
Well, thank you for having me back. Always a pleasure. And thank you for, again, allowing me to be here with these distinguished panelists. And please know, Dr. Simon, we are in here with you. And I hope that we will stay connected. And Senator Sanders, you’re a legend, and I’ve really appreciated the opportunities that I’ve had to work with you in the past, in my younger years as well. So thank you so much for all that you have done.

Kanya Bennett
As you heard on today’s episode, the fight for voting rights, access to education, and democracy is more urgent now than ever. Here are three actions you can take, which you can find in our show transcript. Raise your voice, tell your family, friends, and electeds to oppose the Save Act. HR 22 is being taken up in Congress and is a direct attack on voting rights. This bill would require voters to document their citizenship, and will result in faulty voter roll purges that will lead to eligible voters being disenfranchised. Stay informed. Read the Leadership Conference Coalition Top- line Priorities for the 119th Congress. This list of civil rights priorities is not exhaustive, but represents the most critical areas for congressional engagement during this unprecedented time. Take action. Sign a leadership conference petition, urging congress to reject cuts to Medicaid and healthcare, food assistance, and education that would pay for tax cuts for the ultra wealthy. Thank you for joining us today on Pod for the Cause, the official podcast of the Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights, and the Leadership Conference Education Fund. For more information, please visit civilrights. org. And to connect with us, hit us up on Instagram and Twitter at civilrights.org. You can text us. Text civil rights, that’s two words, civil rights, to 52199 to keep up with our latest updates. Be sure to subscribe to our show on your favorite podcast app, and leave a five star review. Thanks to our production team, Shalonda Hunter, Dina Craig, Taylor Nicholas, and Oprah Cunningham, my colleagues at the Leadership Conference. Let me also acknowledge additional leadership conference staff, Angelie Thacker- Middle, Liz King, Leslie Proll, and Chanel Sherrod for their help with this episode. And shout out to Podville Media, our external production crew. And that’s it from me, your host, Kanya Bennett. Until next time, let’s keep fighting for an America as good as its ideals.

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